-Our focus remains on the user, committed to work that engages openly with society. Through shared practices and collective thinking, new value emerges. Concrete results and their validation will unlock new possibilities for individuals and society alike.-

Drawing on his experience at a major consulting firm, Mr. Hitoshi Kon founded NODE—a company dedicated to connecting the intentions of individuals.

In much of modern capitalism, companies have pursued ever-higher returns to satisfy investors. This focus has often shifted business leaders' attention from users to investors, leading to excessive production and the creation of markets to absorb surplus products. Marketing efforts continually seek to create new demand, always preparing for the next opportunity.

NODE challenges this expansion-driven model by refocusing on a user-centric approach. By identifying core needs, supporting users on their journey, and creating value through collaboration, NODE aims to address not just individual needs but broader societal challenges. Through harnessing the power of circulating capital, NODE envisions propelling the next stage of societal progress.

When people come together, a society forms. If they are connected by strong empathy, a sense of camaraderie deepens, and the collective voice of us may grow louder. But if they remain confined to that empathy, the boundaries of their society stay limited. The world around us is vast and overwhelmingly diverse. 

Like a dense forest where various forms of life constantly interact with different responses, perspectives, and movements, we too exist within an interconnected web. Each element is connected with a balance of distance and relationship, blending together different functions and energies. Both individuals and collectives embody a shared natural order, and this dynamic mix of diverse expressions has endured for thousands of years, evolving through cycles of growth and decline. 

While a forest and human society may not be identical, it’s difficult to clearly distinguish what is altruistic and what is self-serving in the behaviors that arise within them. Actions that seem opportunistic or selfish to one observer might be crucial to the ecosystem. What appears self-serving today could, three or fifty years later—or in a broader context—be seen as a valuable act of altruism. 

From the immediate needs of me to the distant concerns of someone far away, layers of time, space, and relationships overlap in complex ways. Deciding who to walk with, where to go, and how to move forward is a critical question for individuals and organizations alike. Balancing instant decisions with long-term perspectives, competitive positioning with mutual support, and the pursuit of profit with an altruistic spirit requires careful thought. As the framework of capitalism evolves and people's consciousness shifts, how do we integrate both sides of this duality as we move forward? 

“If we can't freely pour our thoughts and passion into the work that occupies most of our lives, it's like living with half of ourselves missing. I want to live in a way that sees work not just as a job, but as a creation. By creating these works with others, I hope to build a network of camaraderie and friendship," says Mr. Kon, founder and CEO of NODE. 

The word, work, also means to function or to deliver results. The many works created through NODE—these collective creations—will merge with the foundational and overarching forces that shape society, becoming part of a larger, interconnected system that shapes the future. 

The dialogue between Mr. Kon and the monk continues, as they listen to the voices of individuals, businesses, and society. 

 Matsumoto: Our first meeting was when you invited me to speak at a training session for NODE. 

Kon:  Yes, that’s right. But honestly, even before that, I had a strong feeling that I needed to connect with you, Rev. Matsumoto. Inviting you to speak at the training session was really just a way to make that connection happen. 

When I asked you to give the lecture, my intention was for each of our employees to take a moment to reflect on the true meaning of their work. I wanted them to consider the direction of their work at NODE, what they’re striving for—both personally and for society—and where the intersections between self and society lie. 

That was definitely on my mind. But, to be honest, what initially drew me to you, Rev. Matsumoto, was this sense that you were a bit of a unique character in today’s world. 

When I attended your lecture on the theme of “Good Ancestor” during an executive training session for a major Japanese corporation, I was struck by your unwavering determination. You continued to speak passionately, no matter how the participants reacted. It was truly impressive mental strength. (laughs) 

 I don’t see “Good Ancestor” as a typical business topic or even as something particularly social, but more as a forward-looking theme with uncertain relevance. To me, it felt like a response to the limitations of the global business economy that capitalism has created. I found the content intriguing, but I was genuinely surprised to see you speak with such confidence, even when it wasn’t clear if your message was resonating with the audience. I couldn’t help but wonder, 'What kind of person is this?' and my curiosity grew. That’s when I realized, 'I need to connect with him. 

Matsumoto:  Or maybe I just wasn’t reading the room. 

Kon:  Whether it was your tendency not to read the room, the toughness gained from your Buddhist training, or simply the strength of your conviction, I’m not sure. But in my view, that moment during the training was quite symbolic. 

A monk came to speak at a training session for a major corporation, discussing time scales spanning seven generations. Meanwhile, the participants—candidates for the next generation of executives—listened while their minds were preoccupied with thoughts of this quarter’s performance, tomorrow’s challenges, and their own conduct. Of course, it’s these daily efforts that keep society and our lives running. But is a life focused solely on these daily struggles something we’d want to pass on to our children and future generations? Is it something we’d consider a cool way of living? I couldn’t help but feel a sense of unease myself. 

Matsumoto:  I see, so in that sense, you might have felt that there was someone who could be a kindred spirit. 

Kon: Yes, exactly, that’s how I felt. NODE was born out of a sense of disillusionment with large consulting firms. While the industry is in high demand and rapidly growing in Japan, their core focus is simply on finding ways to make money, offering advice on how to do so, and helping clients achieve those financial goals. Whether it’s through marketing strategies or specialized know-how, everything is just a means to the end of profit. Ultimately, all discussions are gr ounded in a logic that always comes back to making money. 

 On the other hand, many people in the business world are working toward goals that go beyond just making money. These individuals aren’t necessarily part of a specific group; rather, they are scattered across various companies, and from them, new businesses, services, and even social norms can emerge. However, I’ve seen many cases where their aspirations remain unfulfilled due to external pressures or competing priorities. Without systems in place to support forward-thinking initiatives, how can society truly change? 

With this in mind, we founded NODE to support these like-minded individuals and build new businesses together. It’s meant to serve as a counterpoint to the traditional profit-driven approach to business.  

I want to communicate this to the team clearly, as a core principle, without any convoluted reasoning. 

Kon:  At NODE, we have many people who are forward-thinking, socially conscious, and altruistic. But the reality is, we have bills to pay every month, so making money is a necessity. Both my team and I often find ourselves caught between the long-term purpose of our work and the immediate need for profit. We’re constantly trying to find a way to balance the two. At times, it feels like we’re losing our footing between these two priorities. It was during such a moment—when I felt the need for a guiding principle, like a North Star to keep us on track—that I met Rev.Matsumoto. I thought, “Maybe this person can help us find our grounding.” 

It might be necessary to build a kind of ritual into our daily lives—something like attending Sunday Mass, reflecting, and preparing for the week ahead. I felt it was important to introduce a perspective different from the usual business mindset and create opportunities for employees to reflect on their own principles and how they align with this new outlook. That’s part of why I invited you to speak. 

In the daily reality of the competitive business world, it's almost inevitable to become preoccupied with things like performance, evaluations, and career advancement. Most people live their lives this way, and even you, Rev. Matsumoto, aren't entirely removed from those concerns. But compared to us, those aspects seemed to weigh less heavily on you. 

Matsumoto: If it’s a matter of whether those elements are heavy or light, I have both within me, constantly shifting back and forth between them. But I believe that in today’s business world, the larger an organization becomes, the more it is forced to remain aligned with a particular focus due to societal pressures. The people working in those environments likely have their own thoughts and voices as individuals, but as they continue to suppress those feelings, many seem to lose touch with their own inner voice. 

Kon:  To be honest, I’m not even sure if there’s such a thing as a self within me, but I do believe that I have both a self-centered side and a side that is open to society. 

People naturally want to help others, but when I hear phrases like “be yourself,” which has become popular lately, I sense a more self-centered mindset that prioritizes one’s own comfort. Even working at a company is often driven by personal motives, like the desire for self-growth or the need for recognition. 

I believe that those who create new businesses, services, and drive societal change are motivated more by a vision of shaping the world than by self-interest. I want each of our employees to connect with their altruistic side. To do this, they need experiences that inspire this part of themselves and time for reflection. Listening to your talks or engaging in dialogues with monks felt like an ideal way to cultivate this mindset, both for myself and for my team. 

Matsumoto: Not so much about gaining knowledge, but more about being a catalyst. 

Kon:  In everyday life, we’re constantly dealing with immediate personal desires, like feeling hungry or wanting more money. The challenge is how to create experiences that help people become more aware of their openness to others and their connection to the future. As the head of the company, guiding people in that direction isn’t easy. 

NODE doesn’t prioritize growth solely through profit, but we still have to pay salaries, and as a company, we need to grow to some extent, like a society of our own. That’s why part of my role is to encourage the team to generate revenue when needed. But if, in the midst of that, I suddenly start saying, “Be altruistic,” “Be open to society,” or “Think about the world a hundred years from now,” it can easily come across as insincere. It’s understandable that people might feel uneasy or sense a disconnect. In a business context, no matter how genuine your intentions, it’s often difficult to discuss these ideas without sounding hypocritical. 

Matsumoto:  The audience may end up unsure of which message to focus on. 

Kon: Exactly. When I try to present both sides, it often just confuses the employees, and the core message gets lost. That’s why I asked you to join our training sessions and lead these dialogues, to help create an environment where the message could come through more clearly. 

Matsumoto: In that sense, the dialogues with the monks (Sangyo-so) and the training sessions served as a catalyst, introducing an unfamiliar, outside perspective—a sort of “stranger,” that the participants wouldn’t typically encounter. Personally, every time I engage in these exchanges with you, I feel like something new emerges in the moment, and I always gain valuable insights. 

To become free and adaptable as an individual within the larger currents surrounding us. 

Matsumoto: There are many services that bring in outside perspectives, like coaching or mentorship programs. What do you think made our dialogue sessions unique, given my role as a monk? 

Kon: At NODE, we have experienced advisors and guest directors, providing a structure where we can receive guidance from professionals. These advisors, much like coaches, focus on how to make decisions in today’s context, offering insights into methods and approaches. For example, if I ask a coach, “How should I manage my team?” I might walk away with useful advice, thinking, “Ah, that approach could work.” Or, I might gain insights from the experiences of those who came before me. In both cases, the focus is on how to navigate the current environment—how to run a business or manage effectively. Put simply, it’s about how to achieve goals efficiently. When a coach suggests a management style that suits you, it’s easy to internalize it as uniquely your own. But I often wonder—does that truly reflect who a person is at their core?  

It’s uncommon in coaching sessions to explore questions like, “Do I even need to manage subordinates in the first place?” I think dialogues with a monk are rooted in a Buddhist philosophy that sees the self not as something inherently fixed, but as a perception we hold. Even when discussing management approaches, this philosophy encourages us to ask, “How would the ‘me’ who thinks this way act?” It offers a perspective from a different level. While coaches often guide you toward embracing your true self when making decisions, a monk’s approach is more detached, creating a sense of distance. It’s almost like they guide you to become more authentically yourself—yet as an individual, without being tied down to a specific identity. 

Reflecting on the vastness of the world and the long expanse of time, from past to future, makes me realize my own smallness. In acknowledging that smallness, I find that all I can do is make the best decisions I can, moment by moment. It’s through this sense of humility that I believe people naturally connect with one another. That, I think, is how we become more open to each other. 

Matsumoto: Recently, I’ve felt a sense of connection with large language models (LLMs) in AI. LLMs interpret and generate language through vectors, mapping out the relationships between words and meanings. In a similar way, our thoughts and feelings at any given moment are shaped by countless influences—vectors that create the flow leading us to where we are now. In Buddhism, this concept is akin to “karma,” but it’s not limited to an individual’s life journey. It’s a continuous flow that extends beyond family and lineage, reaching back through human history and even the history of life itself. This larger flow is what shapes our present reality. 

Kon: I think that’s the essence of it. When you see yourself as part of these larger currents flowing through the world, it naturally makes you consider how you should act within that context. If we focus too much on ourselves, it’s easy to become absorbed in a self-centered mindset." 

Matsumoto: Do you mean that it leads to becoming more closed off? 

Kon: Yes, that’s right. People often start with the question, ‘What do I want to do?’ and end up getting stuck in that mindset. Of course, we might have plenty of ideas about what we want. But if we step back and look at ourselves objectively within the shifting dynamics around us, our true desires can become clearer. The purpose of the dialogues with the monk is to create a space where we can gain this broader perspective. 

In my experience in the business world, it’s easy to get caught up in things like money and self-interest. But when we begin to see both money and the self as parts of a larger flow, we become freer—more adaptable. I believe that creating opportunities for this kind of reflection and insight is at the heart of Interbeing Inc.'s mission. Lately, many companies are exploring purpose-driven management. There’s a genuine need for this among business leaders, NPOs, and others striving to balance social impact with economic goals. 

Matsumoto: At Interbeing Inc., my team and I are dedicated to this work because we believe it’s truly necessary. Together with those who feel that there’s potential in what we’re doing—those who recognize something meaningful through the connections we build—we’re gradually uncovering the value we can offer. 

Does society need a way to evaluate altruism and openness? 

Kon: What I found interesting was that, after your lecture, some employees felt a sense of discomfort. A few even opted out of participating in the dialogues with the industrial monk. However, having you engage in discussions with everyone turned out to be incredibly valuable—it provided me with a deeper understanding of our employees and offered new insights into my management approach. 

Matsumoto: So, in a way, the philosophy of Good Ancestor works as a kind of litmus test, doesn't it? 

Kon: Yes, it does. When thinking about how to open up one’s career to society, there are patterns—like what career paths are needed and how, as people get older, they tend to become more closed off. It’s all about cumulative insights." 

Matsumoto: So, you were able to pinpoint the turning point, where things could go one way or the other? 

Kon: Exactly. In consulting, the main challenge is finding a balance between being open to society and generating profit. It involves making strategic decisions—like choosing the right people, assigning roles, and determining authority. These dialogues have provided me with greater clarity in making those choices. Many companies are currently struggling to balance these priorities, but there isn't yet a clear way to measure or evaluate this in terms of people. I believe that, in the future, society will develop better tools to guide these decisions. 

Matsumoto: I see. 

Kon: That’s why I find it so interesting that Interbeing Inc. operates as a kind of consulting support firm for human resource management. 

Matsumoto:  It’s not something we specifically designed at NODE's request, but once we implemented it, we found it served that purpose as well. 

Kon: Indeed. I think companies where many people appreciate dialogues with monks as interesting tend to have a culture that is more open to society.  

Matsumoto: I see your point. 

Kon: I originally thought NODE was one of those highly open companies, but I discovered it wasn’t quite as open as I had expected. It makes me wonder how other companies compare. 

Matsumoto: From my experience speaking with various companies, I felt that NODE had more people with a higher level of openness than most. 

Kon: Given the typical corporate culture, this approach can be challenging from a business perspective. But the issues are already present, and there are seeds of demand out there. I’m confident that more business owners and NPO leaders will increasingly see the need for Interbeing Inc.'s services. 

I hope that the dialogues with Sangyo-so can become key touchpoints for experiences that help people open up to society. These dialogues, while they might provide advice to individuals—though they often steer away from direct advice—hold real value in helping us understand what happens when individuals come together as a group. This process can support everyone, from individual employees to managers, and even the entire organization. 

Matsumoto: If we think in terms of “indicators,” what do you believe Interbeing Inc.’s indicators are actually measuring? 

Kon: I think it's about assessing a company's altruism. How much of its actions are motivated by a genuine desire to serve others, rather than self-interest? Studies show that when employees feel a strong sense of contributing to others or to their customers, their loyalty increases. I believe that fostering this type of altruism, closely tied to employee wellbeing, will become increasingly important for companies moving forward. 

Matsumoto: I get what you mean. When altruism is expressed through how people interact with others, it becomes the company's 'mission' or 'vision.' If we think in terms of vectors or karma, a company is also the result of many different influences that have shaped it over time. Inside and around a company, there’s a mix of the thoughts and efforts of everyone involved, the founder's values, and more. The company’s mission is its collective intention to serve society. When each person contributes to this mission in their own words, they bring the vision to life. It’s about being a pioneer and building a sense of connection to society. 

Kon: I agree with that. 

Matsumoto: Rather than having workers declare, “I am embodying the purpose that was handed down from above,” it’s more about drawing out the creativity and drive that allow the movements and flow of both individuals and the organization as a whole to emerge simultaneously from their relationships. 

Kon: This aligns with the approach taken by President Oikawa of POLA Inc. In 2021, she established the ‘Happiness Lab’ within the company, and in her book (co-authored with Madoka Maeno, Happy Teams Achieve Results: 7 Rules of Wellbeing Management, Nikkei BP), she explains how employee happiness drives the success of both teams and the company, and shares practical ways to achieve this. 

POLA’s beauty consultants are all independent business owners. In the past, they had individual sales quotas, but over time, the pressure from these quotas led to turnover, which became a problem. The challenge then became: How can they generate sales without imposing quotas on individuals? For POLA, the key question was, ‘How can we ensure that our teams work happily?’ According to the ‘Happiness Lab,’ happier teams see higher sales and improved eNPS℠ (Employee Net Promoter Score, a measure of employee satisfaction). This success comes from creating an environment where each individual enjoys freedom, while also supporting each other with a sense of camaraderie. It’s a mindset of, ‘Since we are all independent, let’s support each other rather than compete.’ Leaders who genuinely care for their team members and customers take charge of each team. The ‘Happiness Lab’ was born from a desire to scientifically recognize and reward these qualities. They study 'the happiness of working' through data points like voice tone, skin texture, and attendance. This focus on seeing the beauty of life in happy work aligns perfectly with POLA’s philosophy of pursuing beauty. 

POLA’s initiative is just one example, but the importance of employee wellbeing has become widely recognized in society, and I believe many business leaders resonate with Ms. Oikawa’s perspective. I think those gathered here would also be interested in Interbeing Inc.’s approach—they might find it genuinely 'interesting.'

Making an altruism-driven economy clear and practical 

Kon: Purpose-driven management” can feel distant and hard to relate to for those of us directly involved in running a business. It often seems disconnected from the focus on profitability, which makes it challenging for those on the front lines to embrace. In business, it’s crucial to link on-the-ground well-being with profitability, and I believe this connection comes from teams that truly practice altruism. At NODE, and among our clients, we witness interactions between individuals who embody this spirit of altruism. An economy built on these altruistic relationships is set to become a significant movement. It’s a more fulfilling way to approach management and leadership for everyone involved, capturing the essence of visionary leadership 

Matsumoto: We can already see it taking shape, can’t we? 

Kon: Certainly. It’s definitely on the horizon." 

Matsumoto: Absolutely. But right now, we’re in a transitional period, and there are forces pushing back against the change. It’s a time for endurance, but the future ahead is clear, so I’m not worried about the direction. 

Kon: That’s true. My biggest concern is the risk of war, the fear that it could lead to violence and conflict. The traditional economic system has prioritized self-interest, and during this transition, the gap between people has only grown. But I believe that if we can get through this phase, what awaits us is a 'society of empathy. 

Matsumoto: The direction is clear, and as long as society keeps moving forward without a collapse, we’ll get there. But there’s always the risk of a crash—not so much from climate change, but from human nature itself. 

Kon: In any case, I see it as part of my social mission to help pave the way for the next society from within the business world. I feel that the shift towards greater social responsibility and altruism is happening gradually. However, the concept of being a 'Good Ancestor'—showing altruism toward a world 100 years in the future that we cannot yet see—remains challenging. It’s easy to find motivation when it comes to helping those around us because we can instinctively understand their needs. We’re willing to invest more energy and effort into that. But it’s much harder to feel empathy for something that doesn’t yet exist—future generations or potential beings. Human empathy tends to be stronger when there’s a clear, tangible, and living presence to connect with. It’s easier for us to project ourselves onto those kinds of things. 

Matsumoto: As animals, it’s easier for us to recognize others as part of our group. 

Kon: I feel that the vision behind today’s socially-driven management often remains too abstract or intellectual—almost like a form of Mahayana Buddhism. It needs to be made more accessible to the general public. For example, it might be more effective to focus on ideas like, 'Let’s create a team where we help and respect one another,' or 'Let’s connect across different branches to achieve great results together.' These kinds of relatable, practical ideas tend to resonate more with people and can become the foundation of a movement. 

I believe it’s faster to achieve results by working directly with clients, facing challenges together on the ground, and gradually building empathy. Over time, this can lead to a shared long-term vision. It feels like a faster path forward. 

Matsumoto:  You're absolutely right. Feeling empathy for things we can’t see, and letting that empathy guide our actions, is a challenging task that requires a significant expansion of awareness. But if we think about something as simple as our routine—like putting our hands together in prayer for our ancestors—we realize that, even without being fully aware of it, we feel a connection to something unseen. It might seem difficult, but in reality, we naturally do this in our everyday lives. The presence of our ancestors is subtly woven into our routines, and we often turn our thoughts to them without effort. This kind of cultural practice is especially strong in Japan and East Asia. While it may seem difficult when we try to do it intentionally, we eventually realize that we've been doing it all along. Reflecting on our connection to the past—our ancestors—can help us find ways to extend that connection to future generations we haven't yet met. In truth, everyone already has a foot, or at least a toe, in this way of thinking. The concept of being a ‘Good Ancestor’ serves as a reminder, helping us become more aware of our connection to the future as well. 

Kon:   That is so true. In that sense, the concept of Good Ancestor is a way to give tangible form to ideas that many people already share. When we put our hands together in prayer for our ancestors, it’s a way of connecting with the past through a religious tradition—it functions as a spiritual act. On the other hand, if we think of business as a system where people exchange value and money to coexist, then it’s about fostering altruism within those interactions. The spiritual layer and the business layer are separate, but if business is part of everyday life, then we need to find ways to weave these spiritual experiences into daily routines. 

At the end of the day, businesses need to pay salaries to those working with them, which means they must compete and generate profits. The essence of capitalism is that competition in creating value leads to new value for society. The public sector sets the rules of this system, but if we had mechanisms that made long-term altruism advantageous in the marketplace—not just short-term gains—then the market would adapt accordingly. Right now, business is centered on the flow of present-day monetary value, which makes it difficult to keep a long-term perspective. I’ve tried different approaches in my company, but they haven’t worked out as expected. Some people resonate with and embrace the 'Good Ancestor' concept, but the reality is that the organization also needs people who can actively compete and earn in the present. This creates a natural tension between the two viewpoints. 

When I try to address both sides myself, it can easily come across as sophistry, no matter which side I lean towards. That’s why it’s so important to have someone with a different perspective speak on these topics. 

Matsumoto: A change in roles, then. 

Kon: I think that’s where Interbeing Inc.'s value truly lies.